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 Post subject: 2nd Clan War
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 3:35 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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ok we've decided once a capitol falls we'll end the Clan War, this is due to a few things but mainly because we always intended the War to be a prototype, we want to reflect on how it has gone and what we want to change. This could happen next week or could be months away :) We'll see.

Anyway Plz post ur ideas on the 2nd war, and your views on other's posts. Anyone can comment not just those in clans.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:41 pm 
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This seems as good a time as any to repeat my idea of trying scaling costs by player activity and skill instead of having a list of who's available.

More in-depth info here:
http://massiveassault.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6886

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:36 am 
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Sea Wolf

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Forgot about that idea, so we could say basic invasions costs like atm +$2 per current fight for that player. What about defences tho?

Another idea to thinka obut..

The map, are we happy with 1 big map or should each clan ahve their own map, which is linked to the others at set systems or points (worm holes?)

And then do we want the current idea of a few systems with several planet in each, or do we want to make it planet by planet warfare. Do we want to keep invading single planets or should it be system invasions?

Lets get some ideas flowing

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 Post subject: Clan War Suggestions - Small Clan wars
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:48 am 
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Well 7th Wanser Division have 2 teams ready for clan wars.
A small war for Colonel and below should be a simple affair.
Each Clan having a system of 5 planets. Each person could then have their own planet (which only they can defend, or penalty of a turn if they have to fly in another general). 5 people in each clan would then be needed. This could mean a couple of little clan wars. THese would be easily accessible to new players and be a bit of a training ground. Maybe make it at least one person must be below major.

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 Post subject: 4 players on one planet?
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:51 am 
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Any chance of getting 4 people on one planet fighting at once?
The game would be harder to do, but 4 in sequence would mean that cooperation between players is essential.
New level to the game. Maybe for Massive Assault 2?

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 Post subject: Clans on the Web
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:54 am 
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Well Clan wise it makes it easier with CLans on the home page.
If a link to the map was here and clear, then more people would go and look at the clan map, check out the rules and get involved.
I'm not sure i've seen all the rules. Is it on Enforcers website? I can't remember.
The clan wars is why clans are needed!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:40 am 
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Sea Wolf

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i like this small war idea, but ppl will get abit bored if force to only fight on 1 planet, maybe if we had 5 systems with 1 of each of 5 planets. each clan starts with 1 planet in each system of a different type. They can only attack planets in the same system. 1st clan to have at least 3 planets in 3 systems wins. Might be more interesting than the current little war. That is assuming the guys in the little war want something abit more complicated :) We can use the same available status as in the main war. And each clan can launch 1 attack per planet they control.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:01 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Enforcer wrote:
Forgot about that idea, so we could say basic invasions costs like atm +$2 per current fight for that player. What about defences tho?

Another idea to thinka obut..

The map, are we happy with 1 big map or should each clan ahve their own map, which is linked to the others at set systems or points (worm holes?)

And then do we want the current idea of a few systems with several planet in each, or do we want to make it planet by planet warfare. Do we want to keep invading single planets or should it be system invasions?

Lets get some ideas flowing


I was thinking about having both attacks and defenses cost extra if it makes the person go above the others in number of current games. So like, if all the clan members had 2 games going except for Player A, who had 4, then Player A would cost more to use. The better players therefore would probably get more games, and thus be more expensive, while the faster players would be cheaper, and thus more attractive to use.

I also like the idea of each clan having its own map...even before I joined a clan, I thought it was a little unfair to GoT and FoR to be sandwiched in the middle and being attacked from all sides, while NWO and RN didn't have to worry about each other.

...that's about all I've thought up for now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:31 pm 
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A couple thoughts on the current clan war:

Ever since we have added the PL option, small planets have been changing hands rapidly. I think we need to revisit this, and consider what to do about PL on small maps. With the people that play in the war, most of the time, PL gives them victory. Emerald has been especially notorious, as well as Brimstone.

I propose that we remove the smallest maps from the war. They are quick maps, but it seems that they have little to do with skill once the players are at a certain level. I know this is debatable, but I wanted to send this out.

Another idea I just had is that we could increase the interaction options between clans. How about we have a system where clans can declare trade with other clans? This would give them both resources as they trade, but all other clans would know of this agreement. This would be good for situations where one clan seems to be getting too powerful, so two weaker clans gang up to try to survive.

Now to comment on some other points made:
I like Artanis' idea about scaling costs, but the problem is that this is a calculation that people will prolly make a lot of mistakes on (I know I will!). If we could have a tool that determines the cost of attack or somesuch, this would be more reasonable. I know I could do something like that in code, but it would be a pain to distribute. Do you think you could do a php tool that does this Enforcer?

As far as the wormholes idea, it sounds good. I do like having one map that I can look at and see what the entire galactic situation is though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:11 pm 
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Please, don't forgot about time limit or penalty for the delaying battle.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:05 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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ye can easily write a proram to deterime invasion costs (i think) as dones't involve any actual writing to files (which i'm still having trouble with)

I suggest we use some stricter time limits.

3 days to assign defenders or 1 is auto assigned.

3 days to take a turn
4 days clan get's a warning.
if hits 7 days other clan wins unless clan at fault has cotacted the war devs regarding reassigning games and that player being moved to sleeping.
If clan get's a 2nd warning on the same player for antoehr game hitting 4 days they get a penalty of some kind.

In the current war keeping ppl to the 3 turns is still a problem, altho alot of ppl have been fine with it now for a long time. We just need to act on ppl taht slack quicker.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:47 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Ok, a few more ideas:

Fortification

Allow a clan to spend some money to fortify a planet so that it takes more defeats to push them off (as a battle for a capital does now). The cost and time needed would have to be looked at to keep it from happening everywhere, and whether or not the two sides would need more players, or just have 2 guys playing a best-of-whatever series.

An example of one way it could work is this:
GoT owns Antarcticus, and they spend $20 to add 1 level of fortification to it. FoR then decides to attack that Antarcticus, and assigns Pitor to attack it. GoT assigns Tiger to defend it, and he plays a best-of-three series for it. Elsewhere, NWO has added 1 level of fortification to Noble Rust. RN assigns mwigor to attack it, and because there is 1 level of fortification, they can also assign 1 extra attacker at a discount, choosing NikTheKid to do so. NWO assigns Maelstrom to defend Rust. They play only 1 game per attacker, NikTheKid wins, mwigor loses. mwigor being the primary attacker, he then plays Maelstrom in a tiebreaker, with the winner controlling Rust.


Adding Crateus

I know it would exclude non-MAN players, but perhaps there's some way it could be added, such as not counting towards a player's game count or something? Even if it doesn't do much, it'd add Crateus to the war.


Mercenaries

If a clan is defeated, instead of simply erasing them, let them keep what planets they have, but not gain any income. Then, other clans could pay them to attack planets for them (example: RN doesn't have enough money to buy any more attacks because they have so many battles going, so they pay the Wanzers, who have lost their homeworld, to "borrow" Three Seven for an attack. If Three Seven wins, RN get the planet). This would let a defeated clan keep playing, and possibly even get enough money to fight their way back to their capital. I suppose this could also be used for non-defeated clans as well, but I originally thought it up for the conquered.


Wormholes/sectors/whatever

How about each sector having a transport "hub", and the only way into and out of a sector would be that planet. So then, if FoR attacked NWO in a sector with Emerald, Brimstone, and a hub in Wasserland, they'd have to attack Wasserland and take it before attacking Emerald and Brimstone. Later on, after Wasserland and Brimstone have fallen, NWO couldn't liberate Brimstone until they liberate Wasserland, even though they own Emerald. Other options could be 1) having that hub be the only requirement for attacking onwards, so that when FoR took Wasserland, they could attack the next hub in line while bypassing Emerald and Brimstone and 2) having a planet only give revenue if that sector's hub is controlled by the same clan.

Assuming the hubs were all bigger planets (Wasserland, Rust, New Paradise, Anubis, maybe Crateus), this would remove a lot of the strategic significance of the little planets, so we wouldn't have to take them out of the war. Come to think of it, it would also allow the inclusion of Bizarria...sure, it'd be simple luck as to who won it, but it's not like it would open the way towards a clan's core. Plus, it'd make Redfox happy :wink:



I hope all this at least pretended to make sense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:13 am 
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Sea Wolf

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maybe we should decide to we want to make this more complicated?

the ideas sound good but some ppl have said they think the current war is too complicated all ready.

the fortification could be interesting, but i dind't udnerstand the 2nd example.

crateus will be added to the next war, players without the map will just be overlooked on the avilable list.

as for the mercs. i'm assuming that is only gonna work if we use the "it costs extra to attack with ppl that alrdy ahve fights" else i cna't see why someone would pay for them.

i've never liked bizarria, it's purely down to sas and wether u get pl or not. But woudl be a shame to lose the smaller maps, we dont have that many to start with.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:22 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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an diea for a new clan starting layout..

http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/messup.jpg

ignore the yellow and red systems, the other 3 are in the right layouts.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:39 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Enforcer wrote:
an diea for a new clan starting layout..


I like it a lot! Gives plenty of targets to attack initially, and promises to have some very cool looking maps :).

It would also lead to more interesting strategic decisions... do you cripple the enemies ability to attack your core by taking their arms, or do you go straight for the heart?


Ok, as far as including Craetus, I was thinking that it could replace Emerald for those with MAN. Emerald is bad for giving PL a big advantage right off, but Craetus isn't big enough to be called a medium (plays much like Antarticus). Of course Brimstone is even worse than that with Naval forces added and only 3 SAs...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:24 pm 
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Not bad...the only problem I have with it is that FoR is completely surrounded again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:56 pm 
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Thats not the actual map :) That was just a quick mock up that Enforcer did. We can make sure the clans that were surrounded are on the edges next... GoT by 3, FoR by 4, NWO by 3 (after 7th joins).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:00 am 
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Sea Wolf

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yea is just an idea, u can prob tell i just edited the current map. hopefully we'll be on the outside next war.

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 Post subject: Make the Middle Neutral on the MAP
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 10:58 pm 
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Gents,

I think the map should have neutral systems in the middle. This would mean that you could have 6 clans around the edge. I think the simple hexagon should be used. One centre capital, 6 touching it.

If there are less than 6 clans then neutral systems can be added to ensure you are only touching one clan.

THe clan position can be selected randomly by a third party.

T

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 3:50 am 
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Sea Wolf

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we're thoughta bout neutral systems before, but who defends them? does the defender get the planet if he wins? do neutral plaents cost less to invade etc...

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