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never ending lost games....
http://www.massiveassaultnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kachoudas [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  never ending lost games....
I hope the team won't mind if I write on critics of the game, but here is one :

One thing I really don't like in the game is the fact that most of the time, you know very early in the game who will win it. Either one player made one single fatal mistake, or one is very clearly a much better player than another, or one was really unlucky with his secret allies.

From this situation, the "surrender" button is usefull, but very frustrating. And continueing the game may be really boring for the losing side.

I think that when the game will be commercial, this aspect could be really annoying for newcomers

One could say it's very like chess. But it's also why I don't like chess ;)

Solution ? I have not much. May be reducing the effect of " the more you start to win, the more you'll continue to win" that you get with, for exemple, the indemnities. Or an ammunition/attrition system. Or a limit to the number of units. Or a command system (limit the number of units you can move)...


This is something that mostly appear in large games.

Am I the only one to feel a probleme with this ?

Yours
Jerome / Kachoudas
Author:  DryFire [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:59 am ]
Post subject: 
i think limiting unit is pointless because you only get so much revenue anyway,
Author:  Sky Keeper [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks. Critics is HIGHLY WELCOMED.

I wasn't able to get the problem you are trying to describe: can you name a game that don't have that "the more you start to win the more you win" concept? what games do you like?

BTW: I've seen lot's of "dice gods complains" at Fanaticus :) Maybe that's the solution, but i definetly don't want my perfect 3-4 turns ahead planed plan spoiled by triple 6-1 rolls.

Or is this about those dead games?

limiting number of units won't help - there is such a limit now in the form of map space: if you are fighting in a narrow path the numbers won't help you - you'll need to make a flanking maneuver. And Less units = less damage = slower revenue spending = longer games = more boring.

I also know that ~95% of those who purchase RTS games never play online...
Author:  DryFire [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
i am one of those 95% sky
i playd some rts's online like 2 x

good ai is important.
Author:  Kachoudas [ Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hello,
I have re-read my post and saw that I was everything, but clear :oops:
I'll try to explain better. :wink:

My problem is mostly with large campaigns.
You start for a long game, you make plan for long term, you prepare for a long "adventure"
Then, after a few rounds, you make a big mistake (ex. disclose an isolated small country, or chose bad military options), or it happens that the first country you attacked was an opponent secret allies.... or you started to buy useless units...whatever is the reason... Then, because your opponent is not a beginner, you already know that you've lost (except if you're the kind of player who rely only on your opponent's mistakes) You know it just because both players have exactly the same strengh, the same revenue, and you've missed one opportunity.

Of course, it's normal that you lose. I am not saying that there should be an option for rolling a 6-1 and wining. What I am saying is that it's very frustrating to have prepared for a long game, played it a few days, eagerly waiting for the opponent's turn, and then you realize before the real confrontation happens that whatever you do, you'll lose. That your only hope is that your opponent makes big mistakes, and you know he won't.


It's just very frustrating.
In small games, this is not a real problem, because the game is fast, and you're very quickly into the main clash. Much more fun !

Did I explain my feeling better ?
My conclusion is probably that the game is much more fun in small games !

yours

Jerome / Kachoudas
Author:  DryFire [ Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
small games would be fun

I'm sure they'll come up with some smaller maps. If we ask realy nice.
Author:  Sky Keeper [ Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kachoudas wrote:

My problem is mostly with large campaigns.
You start for a long game, you make plan for long term, you prepare for a long "adventure"
Then, after a few rounds, you make a big mistake (ex. disclose an isolated small country, or chose bad military options), or it happens that the first country you attacked was an opponent secret allies.... or you started to buy useless units...whatever is the reason... Then, because your opponent is not a beginner, you already know that you've lost (except if you're the kind of player who rely only on your opponent's mistakes) You know it just because both players have exactly the same strengh, the same revenue, and you've missed one opportunity.

Of course, it's normal that you lose. I am not saying that there should be an option for rolling a 6-1 and wining. What I am saying is that it's very frustrating to have prepared for a long game, played it a few days, eagerly waiting for the opponent's turn, and then you realize before the real confrontation happens that whatever you do, you'll lose. That your only hope is that your opponent makes big mistakes, and you know he won't.


It's just very frustrating.
In small games, this is not a real problem, because the game is fast, and you're very quickly into the main clash. Much more fun !

Did I explain my feeling better ?
My conclusion is probably that the game is much more fun in small games !

yours

Jerome / Kachoudas


I agree with you. The long games are not very interesting to me too because:
1. you really have to think a lot on your first turn to take all those possible combinations of secret allies into account.
2. It's only worth it if the game will be interesting. - Your opponent is close to you in strength.
3. I can also say that there were 2 games on a large map when I saw from the first disclose that I've won and I realy didn't like to win in this way. And it was not interesting for me to continue these games.

I have a game where I'm sure that I've lost, but I didn't surrender in hope to learn some new tricks from my opponent (it's better to learn them in this lost game than in a new one :)

But for the mistakes you've mentioned... well, disclose and wrong unit combinations are the mistakes that are made once or twice. You learn quickly how to counter Rocket Lauchers with transport+Heavy Bot or aviation...

AS for player ranking and finding a match for you to play, well we'll have that in beta(i think). But you can only learn from the one wiser than you or experimenting yourself.
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