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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:47 pm 
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I think that in this argument we have different dipictions of sex, in regards to this innuendo.

I find that there is a very real difference between:
- sex between people who respect and love each other. Also for pleasure, which, come to think of it, isn't really tabboo, is it?
- just plain 'ol screwing (no better way to put that, sorry) for the purposes of business, money, voyeurism, etc.

Its a big difference. The first would be 'making love' and the second would be 'pornography.'

I obviously don't know about you guys, but I cannot in any way shape or form understand why the concept of making love would be bad. Hell, if you're worried how young young kids would interpret that, just say that the nice commander lady loves you for being so good and wants to give you a big kiss. Or something like that :P Even if you don't believe it yourself, you can get your kids to believe that.

What I especially can't understand is that why, when the very concept of sex comes up, every parent anywhere automatically assumes that its all about pornography and the degradation of society.

All the lady said is that she'd reward you. Which, we all know, means that you and she will consummate (sp?) later.
It doesn't necessarily mean that she'll tape it live and put it on Kazaa for the whole world to see, and it doesn't mean she'll invite Jenna Jameson over for a threesome, either.


And no, saying "I'll reward you" isn't exactly going to topple the free world, either.


Maelstrom wrote:
My view is that as parents, our responsibility is not to shelter our kids from all negative influences out there, it is quite impossible in the world today. Our responsibility is to help our kids make good decisions when they confront these things. Loose morals lead to a degredation of society as a whole and individually. We find that from history, such as in Rome.


2 things I want to say about this:
1) Lets face it, sexuality was not the cause of the fall of the Roman empire. It had a lot more problems than that.
Sure, there were some blatantly gross sexual practices, but that was more of a symptom of incompetant and screwed up rulers. If you want an example, read Tacitus' history on Emperor Nero. It was more in the upper class than anything else, as I understand it.
2) "Our responsibility is to help our kids make good decisions when they confront these things." You know, I couldn't have put it better myself.
They confront an innuendo. So, explain it to them, its meaning, and help them make a rational/moral assessment of it.

Mrakobes wrote:
...and at least Romanss were not introducing all those crazy laws about protecting rights of homosexuals and stuff.


Actually, you know what? The Romans didn't give a damn about homosexuality. They practiced it all the time. Marcus Crassus was bisexual. So was Julius Caesar.
Suetonius, an ancient Roman writer, said of Caesar:
''He's every woman's man and every man's woman.''

In fact, many societies in the past haven't given a damn about homosexuality. This of course become less and less prevalent with the almost puritanical advent of Christianity. Homophobia as we know it today didn't really exist until the past 100 years.

Kolorabi wrote:
Ofcourse, kids should be sheltered from the adult world, but if you're going to make an effort to do so, then focus on what's important first.

Damn straight, man. I can think of a million worse things pertaining to sexuality that can be found on the computer. Most of them are iterations of porn :)


Of course, I'm not a parent, but I was once a kid. I'm 19, so I can say outright that I've grown up in what society is now. And to an extent, I still am growing up.
Yes, these things can be bad for really young kids - 11 and under, lets say. When I was 13, I wouldn't have given this innuendo a second thought.
You don't want it so that your kids retain their innocence into their young adulthood. Of course, losing all their innocence would make them a cynic. Two bad extremes, so go for the middle.
Evil's easiest prey is the innocent man who doesn't understand evil or the world it exists in.



And don't ask why I'm putting so much effort into this argument. I just am :P


Last edited by Icarus on Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:25 am 
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Kolorabi wrote:
I joked about it earlier, but violence _is_ worse than sex. It's really blatantly obvious that violent games and movies have a far more dangerous impact on kids than games and movies which feature depictions of sex - and not just a silly little sentence about someone being rewarded later. Ofcourse, kids should be sheltered from the adult world, but if you're going to make an effort to do so, then focus on what's important first.


Actually, as for "violence", we tried to minimize it in MA as much a possible. Deliberately - so that the kids can play it. You won't see blood or parts of the human body floating around and you won't hear the screams of wounded or dead... You won't see humans in this game at all...

Well, you can't eliminate violence from a military strategy game completely, but we tried out best.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:01 am 
Yes, and you've succeeded, too. As I said, I would not have problems letting kids play this game. In fact, I would encourage them to, as despite the violent premise (it's war, after all), this is a good, clean game which helps develop their sense of logic. And I'd feel much better knowing they were busy with this than some shooter.. :)

I'm just saying that _if_ I were to have objections about kids playing MA, it'd be because of the war theme and not because of that now-famous sentence.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:19 am 
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Icarus wrote:
... between people who respect and love each other....


That's EXACTLY the case in Massie Assault

:D


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:25 pm 
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I found that quite amusing. And it made victory quite rewarding. Russian accents are WAY cool...

Anyways, if you think your children are going to be tainted by such a minor phrase then I would re-think your parenting plan. A child is everything that an adult is, only smaller. And treating them as social outcasts simply because they are young bothers me.

Isolatign and sheltering a child is the worst thing for them, it leads to immaturity and an inferiority complex... Besides. TURN OFF THE VOLUME. That is a WAY easy solution.

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<i>I think elegant simplicity is what makes MA so incredible. </i>


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:28 pm 
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2 Conoran
LOL
you see - his children can then wait while he goes away and then turn sound on
just to hear that only phraze
:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:11 am 
Conoran wrote:
I found that quite amusing. And it made victory quite rewarding. Russian accents are WAY cool...

The only thing that bothered me was that I thought I was special to her - you know, based on the things she said I thought we had something going - and then, when I let my friend play some tutorial missions to train him for a hotseat game, she said the same thing to him! I was heartbroken!

(j/k)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:00 am 
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Conoran wrote:
, she said the same thing to him! I was heartbroken!

(j/k)

:D
dont you know? all woman behave this way...they will tell you that you are unique for them and then they will tell the same to somebody else
:lol:


Last edited by Mrakobes on Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:27 am 
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Mrakobes wrote:
:D
dont you know? all woman behave this way...they will tell you that you are unique for them and then they will tell the same to somebody else
:lol:


hmm...

er...

...

Not touching that one with a ten foot pole.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:14 pm 
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I can't believe this discussion even happened...

;)

Me.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:27 am 
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hrm, just heard this bit myself - does seem completely pointless innuendo

obviously expecting only guys to be playing this game...

anyway - just wanted to point out that the accent is so NOT Russian, it sounds way more chinese to me than anything else.

listen to the way she pronnounces 'r' - the russian r is very strong and they often roll it 'rrrrusian', but the chinese have difficulty saying r and it often sounds more like a 'w' or an 'L'

she says 'I can weward you later, in pewson, if you like'

if she was russian it would have been more like 'I can rrreward you later, in perrson, if you like'


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:41 am 
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She is genuine russian girl :-) She was just trying to say it without accent :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:44 am 
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My 11 year old brother plays this, and I doubt he'd even blink at this sentance, probably wouldn't even cross his mind... but I wouldn't be surprised if he knows at least something about sex (asking me the other day if I was going to "make out" with my friend :))

When he was 8 he played Quake, it didn't warp his mind, didn't destroy him as a person. Why? Because it's a game! He knows it, I know it, every child on the planet knows it, it's only parents that have trouble grasping this, and their emotional involvement hardly makes for rational decision making.

When I was a kid, I used to play a game called "Terrorists" where me and my friends would run around and shoot the hell out of each other. Hell, there was even throat cutting. It was a game! No one cared, because it wasn't real. Now people do it with computers instead of in their minds.

Hell, when my mum was a kid, they used to throw knives at each others feet as a game (that's the British 60's for ya :)), and no one batted an eye lid. Now chunking a zombie makes every child a killer.

Let's face it, the general public are, for the most part, pretty stupid.

Anyone who thinks their child can't handle this sort of reference, no offence intended, either knows very little about children, or has over-protected their child to such an extent that a cold will kill them.

Frankly, children will see more violence and sexual references simply by switching on the news than they ever will in computer games.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:09 pm 
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Kaleb wrote:
if she was russian it would have been more like 'I can rrreward you later, in perrson, if you like'


You have watched too many Hollywood movies.

:-)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:58 am 
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I gotta side with Vic. Her Russian accent is very genuine (I've known quite a few russian imigrants to the great US of A ;) ), and it's quite yummy. ;)

Me.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:08 pm 
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Must have watched all those early James Bond films with the exotic Soviet babes ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:37 pm 
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I wonder if Natalia Schuika ever read this thread :D i bet she would be amused to know that soo many people like her voice :D


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:15 am 
Kolorabi wrote:
Dracovius wrote:
In addition, we all know that there is no porn outside of America. Europe, Asia et al are bastions of purity.
Fortunately not. :)

I would not have any problems letting kids play this game. And if I'd had problems, it would have been because of the killing. It's been said before, but I'll say it again: If you let your kids play a violent game, but then hesitate to let them play a game which _hints_ towards something that seems like sexuality, you've got your priorities wrong, as a parent. That's my personal opinion, and it's my opinion as a person who's been through four years of education on how to work with kids.

I joked about it earlier, but violence _is_ worse than sex. It's really blatantly obvious that violent games and movies have a far more dangerous impact on kids than games and movies which feature depictions of sex - and not just a silly little sentence about someone being rewarded later. Ofcourse, kids should be sheltered from the adult world, but if you're going to make an effort to do so, then focus on what's important first.


Please don't take this personally Kolorabi, but...

Why exactly does everyone always feel the need to discuss how much worse violence is when the level of sexual material and propaganda in a particular instance is questioned? This is ridiculous.

Does this game have violence? Of course. It's a wargame. I expected it. If I want sex, I'll have sex. When I want to play a wargame, I'd prefer to play a wargame.

Ordinarily I respect others views, but anyone on this forum(or anywhere in the world for that matter) who thinks their respective society is not being hurt from rampant sexual exploitation is an idiot.

Sex is extremely intrusive to the psyche, and a young and hence underdeveloped mind is unprepared for this and will most certainly be affected.

Sex is an extremely powerful experience whether that be positive or negative.

There are some societies in the world which condone sex with what most societies would consider those too young. Look 'em up. Their running around in the jungles of the world throwing sticks at animals for their dinner. Boy, that's what I'd like this society I live in to aspire too...

There is a serious problem with the way sex is exploited and portrayed in most of the world, and anyone who thinks they should cloud the issue by claiming violence is worse needs to wake up.

Lets see, society tells me cocaine is worse than alcohol, so I guess it's ok to become an alcoholic as long as I stay away from the coke.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:19 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Please don't take this personally Kolorabi, but...

Why exactly does everyone always feel the need to discuss how much worse violence is when the level of sexual material and propaganda in a particular instance is questioned? This is ridiculous.

"Propaganda"? Are you suggesting the developers of MA are part of a worldwide conspiracy to tear down the values of society or something? :)

To answer your question, though, it is because it really is relevant. Here's why:

If a kid is mature enough to play a game about war and killing, it should also be mature enough to hear a sentence that hints about sex. If not, the parents has done something wrong.

Quote:
Does this game have violence? Of course. It's a wargame. I expected it. If I want sex, I'll have sex. When I want to play a wargame, I'd prefer to play a wargame.

So, if two people kiss in an action movie, that is wrong too? "I wanted killing, not kissing!".

Quote:
Ordinarily I respect others views, but anyone on this forum(or anywhere in the world for that matter) who thinks their respective society is not being hurt from rampant sexual exploitation is an idiot.

So we should censor everything that has something remotely to do with sex. That's logical.

You know what, in an ideal world, every woman would be fully covered (that includes most of their face), preferably wearing black clothes. Wouldn't that be good?

Well, I don't think so, but then, I am an idiot :)

Quote:
Sex is extremely intrusive to the psyche, and a young and hence underdeveloped mind is unprepared for this and will most certainly be affected.

And violence will not affect the same mind? No, Guest, if the mind is capable of dealing with violence, it should also be perfectly capable of dealing with sex.

Quote:
Sex is an extremely powerful experience whether that be positive or negative.

So is violence, except it's always negative.

Quote:
There are some societies in the world which condone sex with what most societies would consider those too young. Look 'em up. Their running around in the jungles of the world throwing sticks at animals for their dinner. Boy, that's what I'd like this society I live in to aspire too...

Ofcourse, your society has found the "right way" to live, and all other societies around the world should mimic that or they're really just primitive and worthless. Right?

Quote:
There is a serious problem with the way sex is exploited and portrayed in most of the world, and anyone who thinks they should cloud the issue by claiming violence is worse needs to wake up.

I've allready answered this.

Quote:
Lets see, society tells me cocaine is worse than alcohol, so I guess it's ok to become an alcoholic as long as I stay away from the coke.

Don't trust society. Ask your parents :)

(seriously, I don't see the relevance - I see the connection you're trying to make, but it doesn't quite work, IMO)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:38 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
Ordinarily I respect others views, but anyone on this forum(or anywhere in the world for that matter) who thinks their respective society is not being hurt from rampant sexual exploitation is an idiot.
.

if you put it this way - i'll say - idiot is anybody who thinks that just one little phraze said by a girl in game is a "rampant sexual blah blah blah"..I am not sure if "rampant sexual blah blah" really hurt the society. .It not hurts me in any way.


Last edited by Mrakobes on Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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