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 Post subject: I need serious tactical/strategic help...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:43 am 
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Tough Nut
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Hello. I am a sargeant, ranked in the top 100 in MAN2, and I stink.

I rather easily beat the AI in about the first 5 games I played. I was feeling accomplished. Then I started playing real people, and getting my tail kicked. Badly.

I started out playing a very conservative game, holding territory & maximizing my units, minimizing risky moves. Then the people I played against beat me with clever use of transports, long invasions, and just generally making me feel foolish. I tried to use similar tactics agianst the AI for practice, and then the AI beats me.

I want some advice on tactics and strategy:
How quickly do you invade? What is the best way to defend/counterattack with guerrilla when a non-ally gets invaded? Are Bullfrogs worth buying? Do you always reveal your allies as quickly as possible, or do you usually wait for a while? How many bombers? Initial invasions- crash in with a huge force, or just send in enough to see what they do and follow up with other units? Do use choppers?

Hopefully I can learn a little from your replies.


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 Post subject: Re: I need serious tactical/strategic help...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:52 am 
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Supreme Marshal
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NucLe@r-UFO wrote:
Hello. I am a sargeant, ranked in the top 100 in MAN2, and I stink.

I rather easily beat the AI in about the first 5 games I played. I was feeling accomplished. Then I started playing real people, and getting my tail kicked. Badly.

I started out playing a very conservative game, holding territory & maximizing my units, minimizing risky moves. Then the people I played against beat me with clever use of transports, long invasions, and just generally making me feel foolish. I tried to use similar tactics agianst the AI for practice, and then the AI beats me.

I want some advice on tactics and strategy:
How quickly do you invade? What is the best way to defend/counterattack with guerrilla when a non-ally gets invaded? Are Bullfrogs worth buying? Do you always reveal your allies as quickly as possible, or do you usually wait for a while? How many bombers? Initial invasions- crash in with a huge force, or just send in enough to see what they do and follow up with other units? Do use choppers?

Hopefully I can learn a little from your replies.


These are links to my articles about MA:
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg1.html
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg2.html
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg3.html
I hope it could be useful for you. Sorry, but English version of article for MAN2 isn't ready.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:18 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Quite intresting even it doesn't cover the MAN2 new units..
Especially when you never played MAN or Domination or any other turn based war game.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!


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 Post subject: Re: I need serious tactical/strategic help...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:17 pm 
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Tough Nut
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Tiger wrote:
These are links to my articles about MA:
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg1.html
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg2.html
http://massiveassault.wargamer.com/beg3.html
I hope it could be useful for you. Sorry, but English version of article for MAN2 isn't ready.


Thank you, those are good articles. I look forward to seeing ones that include the new MAN2 units.

Some tactics that I seem to have success with...

I use a lot of tanks. They are a good combination for the money, so probably 60% of my units are tanks.
I like the FNU Attack Choppers. I try to have one handy for reserves, their range is great. 2 together also make good turret busters, their maneuverability makes it possible to clean out a bunch of guerrilla turrets without taking any damage at all. Meanwhile, your main attack force can be transported elsewhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:34 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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Playing a lot of games will give you the edge you need to win.
MAN isn't won by a defensive strategy. Your best defense is a good offense.
Once upon a time I had more losses than victories....now I play pretty seriously, often frustrated that I "can't win", but "seeing what's happening" and impressing myself by doing better.!
Take advantage of every opportunity to invade, when you can cut off enemie's revenue(Especially good to catch enemy with "money in the bank" which he will never spend and I might! If enemy is saving for a big(ger) purchase and you can invade and keep him from regaining it, do so if reasonable.
Make certain to spy out all enemies' revenues and transports!
If you are revenue-spending and enemy can't, due to invasion, it's a matter of time to overwhelm.
Perspective is critical. Fall back and up with your view to see everything on the map/all territories...Understand the big picture, as well as the nuance of movement capabilities and terrain features.
Tanks are usually a safe buy. Sometimes 6 lav's and bunkers are better than one bullfrog....You will learn this after losing several games.
Take risks and expect to lose, because you are in training.
If I can learn from my mistakes( recognizing them for what they are), and act /think better the next time, mission is being accomplished.
You must count hexes and imagine every move your opponent might make , as in chess.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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there are no "set in stone" rules for this game, which is why it is so interesting! Each game and situation is different and can call for different types of play. You must look at the lay of the land and determine if you are in an offenseive of defensive situation. As for the choice of units, all are of value in the right situation but only game experence will teach you which ones to use and where to use them. Every player has units that they perfer but what works for someone else may not work for you. Since you are learning, i would suggest that you pick mostly units with high hit points. the more fragile the unit, the more skill it takes to use it well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:55 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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So, you are saying that : Tanks , Ostriches and lav's are easier to begin with than, say Rock Launchers, attackcopters, ...and bombers....
But it seems a consensus that best way to learn is to play....and pay attention and get kicked around a little .... altho I'm not sure that Storm ever got kicked around, 'cept maybe by a nuclear-motorcycle... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:57 am 
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Sea Wolf
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since the attack coptors were not around when i started playing i can not speak for them but yes, i do think that tanks, lavs and bots are easier than launchers and amphibs. the main reason being that you usually have to be able to use transports well to have launchers and amphibs be effective. It is this use of transports that takes a little time to get right . We all lose them from time to time but you just have to make sure that it is not too often. As you have said, experence is the best teacher, I usually learn a lot more from a defeat than a victory.

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Archers! But sir, will we not hit our own men? Yes, but we'll hit theirs too, and we have reserves!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:16 am 
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Sea Wolf

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Attack copters is a good subject....I've bought and lost them and all I got out of it was three less dollars....It is almost a thing that you buy when you're already winning and want to go in style....but actually there are times when they are perfect, and it's almost a knack, like lots of this game can get to be, as to when it is a good buy....
Tiger has played , what, over three thousand games and won a large percentage....he can play lots o games and do pretty well....and he has a genius for it that comes with familiarity....(I'm just guessing)....And other players have a knack...Intuition....(the voice of God....?) 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Right on, like a lot of pricer weapons, attack choppers are usuall bought later in the game or when you have a certain thing that you need them for. I find the biggest mistakes newbes make is #1 buying fragil units that they can not protect #2 loseing loaded transports and # 3 not using transports (probably because they lost a few loaded ones). On another subject, I can remember quite well being absolutly crushed in more games than i wish it remember:) Funny thing, in a few of those games i actually started out thing i was going to crush my opponent.

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Archers! But sir, will we not hit our own men? Yes, but we'll hit theirs too, and we have reserves!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:32 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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ha,ha....That's for sure...I've had plenty of whippin's....Recently been having a good time delivering some to our gracious newcomers....
Re: Transports....If you end up with "too many", they're great for blocking and protecting the valuable fighters, eh?...Two or three in a row can really long-haul a deadly punch!... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:18 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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don't teach them all of your tricks!! Since i am starting to have a little more time to play it would be nice if there were still a few easy games left out there:)

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Archers! But sir, will we not hit our own men? Yes, but we'll hit theirs too, and we have reserves!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:25 pm 
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Tough Nut
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Well have about 6 games going against other people, at this point I still have a possibility to win about half of them, and every single game is presenting me with situations I haven't seen before. Real people are so much more creative then the AI.

I have maxed out the AI, as I only get 1 point now each time I beat it, but I am continuing to play it pretty often because the games are so quick.

Here is a philosophy that seems to ring true most games - go in like a sledgehammer when you invade, slip quitly out the back when you can't hold an invaded nuetral country, save the units to fight somewhere else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:57 am 
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Sea Wolf

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Yes..."slipping quietly out"....as opposed to bleeding off lotso $$....I am hopefully learning when to throw in the towel instead of throwing away my revenue....Delaying the enemies' revenue collection might make sense, but this is where you need a mathematical formula or some intuition to decide it....
MAN is a greedy , grabby game (!)...if I can grab it and keep it(as in stealing), I'll win.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:47 am 
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Tough Nut
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I also currently have a tendency to over-commit myself early (as I think I did against you on Brimstone) because the AI doesn't focus well, so if I invade too many countries without enough to really finish the job, the AI never combines forces and totally defeats 1 of my invasions. Instead I get away with 2 or 3 poorly planned invasions, eventually get my countrys, and win. Real people see that I invaded too weak, and crush my invasions one at a time and keep the countries.

Here is where I am talking about going in like a sledgehammer... I am learning to invade with enough force to destroy the entire guerrilla in ~two turns. That way if you get a worse case scenario, (like you just invaded a secret ally with an adjacent secret ally) you may still be OK. Also while you wait to invade while you build a major force, your opponant may invade that same country, and you get to sledgehammer with the guerrilla on your side.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am 
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Sea Wolf

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Yes....Imagining as many possibilities as possible, just as in chess, is a key....Not necessarily easy....tedious....but worth it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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N- you sound like you have it mostly figurered out. The thing is to find what works best for YOU and run with it. Each player has their own style, favorite units and disclosure ideas. What works great against one may not work so well against another. I have sent you a challange so let us play a game, just be gentle because it will be our first time and i bruse easily :wink:

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Archers! But sir, will we not hit our own men? Yes, but we'll hit theirs too, and we have reserves!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:00 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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:D 'nuff said.


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