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 Post subject: Re: Non participants
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:49 am 
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ravermeister wrote:
A quick question - What happens to a player who does not make any (or many) turns and then times out all games in the tournament .


Obviously they will lose the round and be demoted - is that it - what if they do this week after week - they will just slowly float to the bottom....

Would it be better to just to ask them if they want out of the competition all together.... I say give them one more round to prove they can actually finish some games - else - kick them out. (I will probably have to pull out myself at some stage as other things in life become more important).

With all the luck involved in the small maps - 2 or 3 players not playing makes it more :luck" based (the more games you have in one pool the more luck is balanced out).

I understand that things come up in life - and that it may not be possible to play as much as other people - and if its shot term - I have absolutley no problem. But it would be silly for a player to just float to the bottom over 12 months clogging up the system.


There is rule:
"If a participant misses two rounds of the tournament, he’ll have to leave the contest."
One more variant - player can write me don't start battle in next round for him. In this case, this player will be counted as loser in group, but don't lose any points in rating and he'll play next round in the lower group.
If player can't continue to take part in the tournament, he can write me and I'll remove him from next round.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:58 am 
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ravermeister wrote:
Come on Tiger... be daring and make it a Medium sized map.... Please !!!

(you can't say I didn't ask nicely )

;)


There is serious problem with changing of map - some players has sent me message, that 8 battles during a month is too many for them (and it is round on small map). If we change map to medium, we should change time limit, but in this case other plaeyrs will be ask to increase time to 4 weeks and we'll get round during 2 month, when from 1/2 to 2/3 players will finish their battles during 2-3 weeks.

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 Post subject: I'm not there
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:03 am 
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Thanks Tiger, this makes my decision to pull out of this tournament much easier. Though before it's getting worse I resign from this tournament. Of course I will play all my open games to the bitter end.

May the luck be with you

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:08 am 
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What happens when a player resigns from the tournament?

Does an extra person move up for every person that pulls out (ie if Morn pulls out - then you will need 3 people to move up (if he does not come last or second last) so that you still have 8 people in the first division.

AND

you will need to have 3 people to move up from 3rd to second.....

AND so on....

ALSO

if a player in second division pulls out - then 4 people will move up into 2nd division from 3rd division????

Even if Morn comes last (or second last) in division 1 (I doubt it) then you will need 3 people to move from 3rd to second because he wont be in 2nd divisioon to replace the winner and 2nd place of 2nd division...

I am sure it will all work itself out -

I am just curious.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:11 am 
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Fair enough on the time issue-

BUT

Antarticus is a Medium map (same as Midgard).

I played 23 turns on antarticus - I am sure I can finish a game on Midgard in that time.

So please consider Midgard as an option (even Storm likes it and he is always pressed for time :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:48 am 
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ravermeister wrote:
What happens when a player resigns from the tournament?

Does an extra person move up for every person that pulls out (ie if Morn pulls out - then you will need 3 people to move up (if he does not come last or second last) so that you still have 8 people in the first division.

AND

you will need to have 3 people to move up from 3rd to second.....

AND so on....

ALSO

if a player in second division pulls out - then 4 people will move up into 2nd division from 3rd division????

Even if Morn comes last (or second last) in division 1 (I doubt it) then you will need 3 people to move from 3rd to second because he wont be in 2nd divisioon to replace the winner and 2nd place of 2nd division...

I am sure it will all work itself out -

I am just curious.


Yes, if any player withdraw from tournament, his place in the higher group should be replaced by player from the lower group to save number of players in the group and even number of games for FNU and League.
However, I hope Morn will change his plans.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:59 am 
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Me too - Morn is a great competitor and the competiton will be worth less with him gone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Yes, let's hope he stays in. I'm after some revenge!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:08 pm 
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Many players prefer to play the maps with large size, because of it decrease role of luck in the battles, and therefore less likely to lose player with lower qualification.
However in our tournament players in the group are approximately one level ... All players are in the same conditions, so I do not see any need to increase the size of tournament’s maps and as a result the time spent on game. Really, it’s very difficult for many players to spend enough time on the game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:13 pm 
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First, I am not saying that the map size caused me to lose as many games as i did, i totally admit that i did not play very well in several. That said, and i know i speak for Morn as well, there were more than just 1 or 2 games where the chance of winning was absolutely ZERO because of the layout. Perhaps the results would be the same with slightly larger maps--i don't think anyone is asking for trinity or sea swiss--but as someone that plays almost all medium or large maps (i never play small maps ) i do not see the hopelessness of the layout nearly as often on the bigger maps as i have in this round of the tournament. Most of the games i have either played or watched were determined in the first 3 or 4 turns and quite a few with the first. I personally would like to see a longer chessclock and larger maps. If a lot of players finish quickly and have to wait for the next round what is the down side of that? They can start non turny games while they wait and the players that are pressed for time will not be stressing out over trying to make 8 turns everyday, against the best players, so they do not fall behind with the clock. As things are now, i think the time commitment and map size is going to drive a lot of players out of the competition--myself included.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:07 am 
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Rocklizards first move against me won him the match - and I had not even played a turn.... I admit I played it badly - but mainly out of desperation to try to magic a win from a very har layout - just made it worse... I might as well be flipping a coin to see who wins..

Out of my 8 games - I think in 2 I had no chance (given that everyone in div 2 is a very good player) and 2 they had no chance... so I was left with only 4 games where my skill or lack of counted for something.

I would rather only play 4 games on big maps with more time instead of playing turn after turn in a game I should be surrendering. (or in a game where my opponent should be surrendering).

The rule where the countback of turn makes a difference is cool - but means everyone plays to the death (I hate that - such a waste of time).

I am VERY keen to see the new maps. Can we have a sneek peak?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:51 pm 
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....just a little quota to this discussion - even if im out of tournament -....but, why dont play on larger maps maybe with a low density or a with a lower number of turns or also with both of these options??? :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:24 pm 
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There are a lot of things about this tounement that I like. Playing over a year on a variety of maps against players of a similar level each month gives a good idea of overall skill level. It also makes for some very interesting games. And I like that the newer players can try and work their way up from the lower divisions.

I also like that we get a new game started every month without much time in between where you don't have any tournement games.

I agree that the small maps leave a lot to chance, but there is quite a lot of time for the bad starts to even out the good starts. I think that might be where the test of skill is in this tournement. The player who wins is probably the player who can turn some of his loosing positions into draws or wins.

There's not going to be a clear winner with 9 wins each month. Its going to be a long hard struggle, but I think that could make it a bit more interesting.

I like a big map as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I really want to fight 8 games a month (or even evey two months) on a large map against the 8 best players in the world. Now that's hard work!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:40 pm 
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MortonHQ wrote:
There's not going to be a clear winner with 9 wins each month.


I think no one is going to argue with you about that because there are "only" 8 games per month and player in this tournament. ;-)

And your other opinions are ... let's say questionable. :-?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:44 pm 
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All battles of the first round in Division 1 has been finished.
This is final standing of players:

Division 1
Alliance (19.0.0.-61 / 3871)
Tywer (18.0.0.-47 / 3927)
AHgpeu (16.0.0.-28 / 5205)
Tiger (15.0.0.-16 / 4806)
Morn (10.1.0.36 / 4698)
storm440 (10.1.0.27 / 4043)
Iskabis (9.3.-14.36 / 2469)
opitis (9.0.14.19 / 3508)
snake41dad (0.0.0.31 / 2920)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:16 am 
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To Morton HQ - of course you like the tournament - you are kicking A$$ :)

I will try to remember to enjoy my games more - even though I am getting creamed...


To Tiger: It looks like that in spite of my average performance, I may yet get upgraded to Division 1..... (by the withdrawal of Morn, Storm440 and Cujo).....

By my calculation - if I come 4th or 5th in my pool I will get....

(20-2*4) * 1/2 = 6 points (for 4th)
(20-2*5) * 1/2 = 5 points (for 5th)

So - in the next round.... if I get 1st or 2nd (LOL - not bloody likely) I get 8 bonus points ???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:33 am 
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If players are pulling out, will there still be the same number of demotions? Might be fairer if there are no demotions when 2 or more players withdraw?

Just a thought.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:33 am 
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ravermeister wrote:

So - in the next round.... if I get 1st or 2nd (LOL - not bloody likely) I get 8 bonus points ???

Yes, you calculation is right, but we should to make a decision about situation with temporary withdrawal of some players. Probably, they will be counted as loser in next round without creating of battles and move down just after it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:59 am 
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Table of points for the players first five divisions

division 1
1 - 18
2 - 16
3 - 14
4 - 12
5 - 10
6 - 8
7 - 6
8 - 4
9 - 2

division 2
1 - 9
2 - 8
3 - 7
4 - 6
5 - 5
6 - 4
7 - 3
8 - 2
9 - 1

division 3
1 - 6
2 - 5.33
3 - 4.67
4 - 4
5 - 3.33
6 - 2.67
7 - 2
8 - 1.33
9 - 0.67

division 4
1 - 4.5
2 - 4
3 - 3.5
4 - 3
5 - 2.5
6 - 2
7 - 1.5
8 - 1
9 - 0.5

division 5
1 - 3.6
2 - 3.2
3 - 2.8
4 - 2.4
5 - 2
6 - 1.6
7 - 1.2
8 - 0.8
9 - 0.4


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:18 am 
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Temporary withdrwal is tricky. If the players have a good chance of coming back then I guess making them losers would be fine, but if they don't come back then other players who could have played in the higher divisions will miss the opertunity (and the points!) for a month which does not seam fair. Also means the rest of use get less games which reduces the fun.

Personally, I would rather play with fewer players who are committed to the tournement than a lot of players who do not play for a month or two.

I can understand that people have other commitments which make it difficult to play every month. Perhaps MA should set up shorter monthly tournements for these players?


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