In a somewhat feeble attempt to get some interesting strategy discussions going, I wold like to hear some thoughts on use of the "super units": the bull frog and leviathan.

I've seen the bull frog used to good effect as guerrilla against a tank invasion in desert/forest/etc (alas - against me). You kill a tank per turn and the terrain makes surrounding the bull frog difficult. But, as a front line (or just behind front line) unit, I feel you could almost always do better with the cheaper / more specialized units, unless space was very tight.

There are limited cases where I'd want a leviathan over two battleships (same cost). (1) where the extra range is needed, like for naval bombardment (2) in confined naval areas. Otherwise the battleships have 60% more hit points and 20% more damage.

I have very limited experience with these guys and would like to hear some discussion on where they can be used effectively.

IMO the leviathan is a little bit overpowered. The price and the HP are ok, but I would prefer a range or speed of 3 instead of 4. It is vulnerable to some extent this is right, but in the end many players I play against, prefer it in the most cases to 2 battleships and I this shows that it is too powerful.

its advantages:
-high range with 4
-very fast with 4
-concentrated firepower from 1 single hex

disadvantages:
-"only" 10 HP
-expensive

With the bullfrog there is no problem in cost/efficiency ratio. It is mighty and not very expensive but his mobility is limited.

BTW: I would suggest a "classic" unit setting in the next patch which should comprise only the original MA units, without the new units which has been added in the domination game.

On big maps with lots of water like Trinity it can be a real pain in the ass.
I've learned their value on a painfull way..
Deploying my troops for a massive invasion, while the other player just deploys an leviathan and two bunkers, while I only had ground troups..

My invasion went wroooooooooooooong

I also saw people using guerilla in combination with secret ally when invading a country, deploying a leviathan.. It really can disdurb all your plans

I like press leviathans to the bank and destroy with small ships.
Last week i did this trick four times!
Enemy invades some neutral country, my guerillas press his leviathan and then i disclose my neighbour country with 1 or 2 cruisers.

I build leviathans often and i use them with amphibians and killerwhales.

The liviathian is a great unit when used in the proper situation, but as noted in other reviews you usually must have support for it to keep it from being destroyed --if your opponent has a naval presents. The biggest drawback is its lack of speed if you are playing on a large map-ie:no matter how powerful your unit, if it can not get to the battle quickly it will be of limited use. The toad is another matter. There are times when it is the only unit that can produce a desired effect, but in general, i find that when i give in to the urge to purchase one i usually end up regretting it, due to it's limited mobility--especially on the larger maps--which is usually all that i play.

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure i understand jedi's press the leviathan to the shore, but i'm going to have to try it next time i see the opportunity.

Similar topic: have leviathans marginalized the aircraft carrier? the only time i've seen one used recently is when i was playing as green against the ai and couldn't buy a leviathan myself.

I believe he means to corner the livathian so that it's mobility is limited ie: if it is surrounded by 5 sharks and can not move to open water the sharks will destroy it--which just goes back to what i said about having support for the large capital ships. As for the carriers, they are still used but the cost is so large--18--you must really have a well established navy already in place to make it effective. That said, on a map like trinity or sea swiss where much of the countries can be accessed from the inner channel, a carrier can be very effective --following behind a screen of livathians, battleships or sharks. The question you must often ask is:what units do i need to win this battle and how important is winning this battle to winning the war? If one battle will determine the outcome of the game use whatever units will win that battle regardless of weather they can be used somewhere else on the map---a carrier, livathian, battleship or sub on one side of sea swiss will never make it around to the other side of the map so make sure they are worth the cost in the battle you are building them for!

to :superklaus3
you can already choose to use the classic units!

Good comments storm. I think i need more experience on the bigger maps. One of these days I get around to posting some strategy-based questions (as opposed to tactics). I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the tactical part of the game but have a hard time seeing the larger strategic picture.

leviathans are good for bombarment and if massed they can kill everything. Try using them on wassesland and you will see that most islands except large countries, can be bombared with ease. I have aslo found that super units can become sheilds if nessary because of the fear they cause, simply by being there on the battlefield. So that means if the enemy doesn't want a bunch of them wrecking the place they will direct their fire at them allowing other units to fire back without remorse. Bullfrogs aka Megabots are just a mortar and a heavybot mixed together the question is which is better 2 units to 1? Otherwise I love to shove them on the frontline to cause chaos and mayham. The flaws about them they become damage magnets where ever you like it or not. Their lack of land transportation is a dissapointment meaning if you have a country with them on it and there is no sea acess well it looks like they are going to walk.
PS:has anyone tried to kill a leviathan with a megabot in the right conditions. Because of it's extra 1 hitpoint?

only the most inexperienced player would allow his leviathan to be destroyed by a toad--Unless he feels that it is going to be lost no matter what he does and he wants to take one last shot. Otherwise, the 4 verses 2 unit movements will usually allow the leviathan to move out of the toads range.

i was playing as green against the ai and couldn't buy a leviathan myself.
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